Curse

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You didn't happen to notice the collosal irony in writing your post, did you?

You didn't happen to notice that existence is generally a matter of fighting fire with fire until everyone burns to death?

If people weren't constantly being arseholes TOWARD me, I wouldn't need to be an arsehole back AT them... And I do endeavour to be reasonable to those who are willing to be reasonable to me.

And if you're considering remarking to the reverse.... It doesn't work.
If being nice against the odds got anyone anywhere then everyone WOULD be doing it... but that is the problem for the most part... It isn't.
We have no choice but to conform to the general arseholishness or avoid people entirely....

It is sick... but that is the way of things.

*Sighs*

And if you're referring to some other sort of irony then you are correct... as I can't think of anything else ironic about it.

EternalTempest · Apr 05, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Maybe that's one of the reason they're making GW2. Anet can't win, please, or fix both sides in GW1 anymore. They can't be arse, so they're making a new fresh start.

Mostly agree, there doing ok now and with Eyes of the North.. but there too many balls being juggled in the air and they keep throwing more in...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

You didn't happen to notice that existence is generally a matter of fighting fire with fire until everyone burns to death?

If people weren't constantly being arseholes TOWARD me, I wouldn't need to be an arsehole back AT them... And I do endeavour to be reasonable to those who are willing to be reasonable to me.

And if you're considering remarking to the reverse.... It doesn't work.
If being nice against the odds got anyone anywhere then everyone WOULD be doing it... but that is the problem for the most part... It isn't.
We have no choice but to conform to the general arseholishness or avoid people entirely....

It is sick... but that is the way of things.

*Sighs*

And if you're referring to some other sort of irony then you are correct... as I can't think of anything else ironic about it.

Actually I loved your description. When a person plays one *specific way* and a anet makes a change and it impacts them grealty, depending on there attitude they can blow up because the way they play the game has changed (to the pleasure or displeasure). Never mind that the change can be better for the game as a whole.

FoxBat · Apr 05, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

As was already mentioned, mobs never change their skillbars or tactics, encouraging the development of very narrow, gimmicky PvE builds to efficiently counter what the mobs are doing. This typically means that people who invest a lot of time at getting good at PvE and farming, are the type who enjoy doing the same one thing over and over and over. Naturally this same type is going to be the most resistant to any change forced onto what they are doing. As balance never mattered to PvE types anyway, all skill changes do is nerf favorite build X that they enjoy replaying; they have little interest in new things like build Y taking advantage of buffed skills, and there's little concept of "overpowered" in PvE when you can solo farm so many places.

I would love if hard mode forced Anet to consider actual PvE balance along the lines that raids do in WoW, but I'm not holding my breath for it. I'd say incoming chains, absurd soul reaping, and searing flames are bad (worse even) for PvE too, but there's so much more broken in PvE that this would barely scratch the surface.

Nucflash · Apr 05, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I just have to pop in with a nice metaphor of the whole PvE and PvP thing:

Anet treats PvP like it's the supermodel you dream about while you're having sex with your wife (PvE). You can fantasize whoever you like, changing it at will, and in any setting you like, as long as it's good for you, but in the end, you're just ****ing your wife.

You are sooooooooooooo right. This is my analogy of the situation:

example pver: D***it, they nerfed something else, ANet, are you nuts? Why do you do this to us? Now my favorite build is useless. B**ch, B**ch, B**ch...ADAPT.

example PvPer: OOOOOWWWWEEEEEEE!! that hurt. I don't like getting my a** handed to me, I'm rank 3. This isn't supposed to happen, that person thought of something before I did....therefore it NEEDS to be nerfed. PLEASE ANET...make the bad man go away...whine, whine, whine....

ANeT's response to PvPer: Nerf, Nerf, Nerf..."there ya go little guy, is it all better now?

ANeT's response to PvEr: Nerf, Nerf, Nerf..."What are you B**ching about? It was never intended to do that...this is the way it was supposed to be to start with.

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Actually I loved your description. When a person plays one *specific way* and a anet makes a change and it impacts them grealty, depending on there attitude they can blow up because the way they play the game has changed (to the pleasure or displeasure). Never mind that the change can be better for the game as a whole.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not there....

... But you show me a true Utilitarian... and I'll show you life on mars.

Everyone is self-concerned.... That is only natural. The irony is that they often pretend they aren't... or even try to believe it. It only gets worse when they rub it in the faces of those they have wronged.
When I'm being self-concerned, at least I have the decency not to give a toss about anyone else.... rather than actively aggroing folks for no gain of my own.

Kakumei · Apr 05, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

On the money, my good man.

Though that doesn't address the whole of the problem.
Guild Wars is rife with bigotry.

The key problem as you addressed is that of the Elitist PvPers... who seem to be of the opinion that PvE is just the "Pre-Searing" of the game, so to speak.... as though there were anything entertaining about repeatedly beating up other random people with clone builds in the same arenas.
I have nothing positive to say about those people whatsoever, so I will drop the matter.

Then of course you have the Elite Farmers... the ones who go through Urgoz's Warren and the Domain of Anguish ... and solo-farm the Underworld when they need a break. The sorts of people who have inventories riddled with Ectoplasm, expect everyone to trade in Ectoplasm in the hundreds, and consider those who spend time OUTSIDE the Elite areas nothing more than a joke. They're the sort of people who regularly trade in perfect golds and will even sneer at someone who dares suggest a req.12 or 14^50 weapon might ever be used for anything.
They sicken me too... though not as much as the PvPers...

After that... are the casual trolls and the like. I notice there are often a lot of them in Shing Jea Monastary and Pre-Searing Ascalon. They like nothing better than to prat about... communicate in some kind of bizarre set of symbols and abbreviations... and insult whoever they feel like as they go by. Quite often they're just after the drunk title or whatever, as there are usually a few booze comments floating around the place. They are the secondary reason (behind the trade-spammers) why I tend to keep the Local Chat channel deactivated.

Last but not least.... there are the socio-addicts. The gimps that riddle most mission areas that see Heroes and Henchies as anathema. I have to be careful whenever I need to team up with anyone so as to avoid joining with the sorts of teams who will tell me to drop my heroes.... as if they think they would be even half as good. They're just deluded.... and I leave them to their own business.

I have insults thrown at me on a fairly regular basis by ALL of the above... and do my utmost to avoid them.
I don't have any friends that play guild wars. I have a list of contacts in game who have been respectable to me in the past.... but most of them aren't even online any more. I got kicked out of a decent guild because despite their originally inviting me (and putting up with my lack of PvP enthusiasm) I happened to be stuck without access to GW for a week.

Because of the generally offensive, elitist and unpleasant attitude of much of Guild Wars (and to avoid oppurtunist guild recruiters), I have had to make my own solo-guild... where I am the only member.... And I go everywhere alone. It is leaving me wondering sometimes why I even bought the game in the first place.
There just aren't enough decent people out there.

[Not only that, but people tend to start spamming abbreviated nonsense at me when I complain about their generally intolerable behaviour. What the heck is it with people and using abbreviations outside of combat areas? Are they THAT typing-impaired?]

Please tell me you are fakeposting because this is epic.

mafia cyborg · Apr 05, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

this thread is DUMB.
SR has always been overpowered in PvE but anet never bothered nerfin it b4 cos it didnt affect PvP that much.....till now.
PvP is where skills/atributes are compared against each other....and if SR is proven to be overpowered in pvp environment is fair enough it gets nerfed in PvE too.
classes need some sort of balance in PvE too....or else u gonna see Bip or Mm cheese goin too far.
even if Anet would balance SR in a PvE perspective it would still nerf it.....actually it would have been nerfed since the start.

tomcruisejr · Apr 05, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

SR has always been overpowered in PvE but anet never bothered nerfin it b4 cos it didnt affect PvP that much.....till now.
PvP is where skills/atributes are compared against each other.

It is true that A.Net and players noticed the almost limitless power of Soul Reaping in PvP because this is a controlled environment where the skills and attributes can be compared. I agree, hands down. But please tell us exactly how and why soul reaping has always been overpowered in PvE.

I demand a 1 page paper, ok or if you cannot, 3 sentences can do.

Balkoth · Apr 05, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

The SR change was useless

It is still OP in Halls, limitless energry just with another condition. Not balanced.
And SR is still extrememly powerful in PvE, but there is no need for balance there so...

How does this change upset everybody? Just because they changed the description and not the end result?

If thats the problem I want Auspiciuos Incarnitation changed back, I like having a long winded description on my bar

Edit: Almost forgot to agree with the solution to have the SR energy split between characters, so that the energy would be split among all the necro's recieveing it. Death to IV spike!

EternalTempest · Apr 05, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not there....

... But you show me a true Utilitarian... and I'll show you life on mars.

Everyone is self-concerned.... That is only natural. The irony is that they often pretend they aren't... or even try to believe it. It only gets worse when they rub it in the faces of those they have wronged.
When I'm being self-concerned, at least I have the decency not to give a toss about anyone else.... rather than actively aggroing folks for no gain of my own.

Meant to say your earlier post about the different extremes (player types) is dead on, and those are the one that make an uproar when something changed because they tend to play a very specific way and even though a change may be for the game as a whole, they only see it as being targeted to them. Agree that people don't fit in to the categories exactly, and people can have different degree of the extremes you posted.

the_jos · Apr 05, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

SR is not overpowered in PvE.
For a long time (prophecies) it did not even have skills linked.
That changed with Factions and NF, but the linked skills don't impact PvE much.
I have never seen requests for IV, RM, WoD necro's.
People want necro's in their teams for the skills from other attributes.
Like SS, MM or Orders or the ocassional BiP / Br.
Sure, SR does enable necro's to use a lot of high energy spells.
That's probably why A-net decreased energy on 2 animate spells.

If SR is overpowered, there would be numerous builds for Ne/? that ran on full secondary profession skillbars with SR high.
That's not the case. Necro's play necro's in PvE.
And there are also no(t much) full necro teams running around.

The only thing you could say is that necro's as profession is overpowered in PvE.
But that does not fit with the 'holy trinity', W/E/Mo.

I do think the Necro is more powerfull in PvE than some other professions, but that's more due to the game mechanics than the necromancer profession.
The powerfull PvE builds like MM and SS are not the ones winning PvP.
Those builds 'abuse' the A(not so)I.
I did see a nice spike team using Orders a couple of days ago in HA. It hurt a lot, but then Orders are not general PvE.

In the end, in PvE SR is not overpowered.
It's PvP where it seems overpowered.
And the nerf does not hit the PvE necro too hard.
Perhaps he/she has to take some more care about energy.
But that's not all bad.
Not sure about the impact on PvP.
I think IV is the main problem, unconditional 5e spike every 5 seconds in the SR attribute. I think, since the spell is in SR, the energy cost should be doubled. With 2 casts, you have a nett energy loss instead of a nett energy win (when your target dies).

FoxBat · Apr 06, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

If SR is overpowered, there would be numerous builds for Ne/? that ran on full secondary profession skillbars with SR high.

There's two ways you can look at this.

A) People are idiots.

B) While necros can outdo primaries in some situations, they still do their own primary best. While an MM, curses, and N/Mo and N/Rt backline would rock face, most of the time you've only got 1 or 2 necros in a party because that's who was avaliable, so there's no point.

C) It's actually harder to use infinite energy in most PvE. Mobs die fast and then you spend time traveling to the next one, regaining energy in the process. For example, this makes energy storage an actually useful attribute in PvE as opposed to PvP (barring flagging)

That said, with a party composed of guildies and heroes, any team build where I've got an MM, I vastly prefer a N/Rt resto rit to a heal monk. And still will even after the soul reaping change.

scrinner · Apr 06, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

The nerf wouldn't hit PVE necro's that hard but i do agree necromancers were getting alot of free energy from kills (Though i guess the more the merrier). Btw it seems zinger got banned, was wondering if the guru mods would do that at one point.

Zexion · Apr 06, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

If GW is (PvE /\ PvP) \/ (PvE \/ PvP)?

Let us define a as (PvE /\ PvP) and b as (PvE \/ PvP).

Then we have:

PvE | PvE | a | b | a \/ b
F . | F . | T | F | T
F . | T . | F | T | T
T . | F . | F | T | T
T . | T . | T | T | T

(F=False, T=True)

It seems your statement holds true in all cases

Back to the Sardelac Sanitarium with me.

_Zexion

Silly Warrior · Apr 06, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Anet is trying to keep a stable half in half, as shown in the update that is half-pvp half PvE.

And why was the creator of this thread banned? Just curious.

Poor poor zinger